Talk:Gloriana
I had the unexpected privilege and honor to chat with Lori over ICQ and she told me her idea behind Glorianna. According to her concept, some "energy wave" or something, hit Earth in 1 BC and divided reality into two. In the reality of Glorianna, time did not progress in the same pace in all locations, and hence we have the Victorian Mordavia on the same planet as medieval Spielburg (and other more humorous anachronisms). Also in that reality, animals started to evolve rapidly. The "bad" news is that the above can't be verified by anyone else. It's just my word that I chatted with Lori over ICQ. The other "bad" news is that it's only a concept. She didn't seem to elaborate on it, and there is no trace of any cosmology in the games; so it doesn't have any practical significance. So there :) MoffRebusMy Talk 00:39, March 9, 2010 (UTC) Its interesting, and I think it should get its own page, and linked from this page. The generic Gloriana details (as in geography) as seen in the games/authorized guide could be included in the main page. 12:22, March 9, 2010 (UTC) Lori had talked about this "origin of Glorianna" on a few other occasions, if you Google "Glorianna QfG" you'll find it in a lot places, along with lists saying which places are canon and what real-world places they relate to. Grahamburger 05:57, March 10, 2010 (UTC) :Sounds like this goes into that nebulous grey area of published official Sierra/Activison material vs. the Cole's personal unpublished canon (material not necessarily authorized by Sierra/Activision). I think for the sake of Quest for Glory omnipedia its safer to stick with published and released material as being higher level than behind the scenes concept material (or non Sierra/Activision material). Though the behind the scenes concept material should be noted within the behind the scenes section, if they can be cited. Also ya Grahamburger I know the material can be found, archives of the old wikipedia page that once existed. I don't think the page was ever cited originally. So it was more of an issue with hearsay and original research than something considered "credible". Again I'm not against material of that sort being included in some way, but it needs to be pointed out that it was picked up through informal emails or interviews if possible. I've included quotes and information in KQ omnipedia, which I received from Peter Spear, and KQ designers through email and private chat, although they can't be 100% verified of course. They can still be useful, its just a manner of trying to verify things whenever possible.Baggins 10:21, March 10, 2010 (UTC) :: The only "other places" I added were ones that I remember seeing them mentioned in the games -- according to the article I was looking at (http://en.allexperts.com/e/g/gl/glorianna.htm) but since I don't remember the context of their being mentioned, I figured I'd leave that for someone else. Grahamburger 19:18, March 10, 2010 (UTC) Ya, that all experts page is a backed up copy of the old wikipedia article (that was later deleted). It suffers from the difficulty of "original research", and lack of verifiable citations. Thus any of the wikipedia backup copies (all experts, etc) really can't be cited. Its almost a circular citation, i.e. a page of unverifiable information put up by fans (with little context), being cited to create another article. So it is a cloning of the unverifiable information. Again, I'm not against people adding comments if they have a first hand interview, or discussion with a designer. However, it should include direct quotes, with as much information as possible included (date of interview, etc). If its in a live forum, a link to the discussion would be useful. In game citations are the most helpful. One should be using "ref" to give specific point when it appears in the game. Also when no picture of a place exists, a screenshot of the land being mentioned in-game text should be used instead, IMO. It provides context and a visual citation.Baggins 15:38, March 11, 2010 (UTC) Page name Just to be clear what is the name as it appears in Quest for Glory V? The spelling on this page should reflect how it appears in the game. Also could someone get a screenshot of the world globe that appears in that game?Baggins 13:27, March 10, 2010 (UTC) : It definitely "Glorianna", though I don't recall it being said in QfGV (although I could be wrong) but that same article mentions this debate. Grahamburger 19:18, March 10, 2010 (UTC) ::The one reference to "Glorian/na" in QFG5 is when you look at the globe (or map, I can't remember exactly) in the magic shop (or shop where you buy magic spells). Been so long since I played the game. Someone needs to confirm the spelling there.Baggins 15:35, March 11, 2010 (UTC) :::Alright after some trouble getting the game installed, I found the quote, the globe is in the F.A. Correspondence School. It is the "Gloriana" spelling. If anyone knows of any other in-game references, let us know. In anycase I moved the page name to reflect the in-game spelling. Apparently the coles have called it "Glorianna" in forums and possibly their School for Adventurers. But since this is the Quest for Glory Wiki, we'll go with the specific QFG reference.Baggins 19:54, March 11, 2010 (UTC) A few places Ok, looking at a few lists on fan sites, I see references to a "Siana" and "Vespucciland". Can anyone confirm these locations, and where one can see the references? Also I looked into Falworth, it seems its more a direct reference to the Blackshield of Falworth, which was the coat of arms of the Falworth surname, not the name of a location. So its pretty much an injoke.Baggins 20:16, March 12, 2010 (UTC) : I found another article which is basically the same as the first one, but with an expanded list of "canon places" mentioned in the game -- both Siana and Vespucciland are mentioned in it, but I don't remember them from the games at all. They most likely don't appear in dialogue, since the QfG Let's Play at lparchive.org makes no mention of them and it's pretty good about keeping in all of the canon facts (despite making the dialogue more coloful...) Grahamburger 22:06, March 12, 2010 (UTC) :Gaul? Need direct reference for that too. I tried to do a search through QG3 files, but unfortunately, most of the in-game text doesn't appear in sci viewer.Baggins 23:23, March 12, 2010 (UTC) :: I believe that's referenced in QfG1, actually, though I will have to look for it. Do we have any idea what the real world equivalent of Tangiers is? Grahamburger 00:29, March 13, 2010 (UTC) :Tangiers, its a real-world city in Moroccohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangier.Baggins 00:42, March 13, 2010 (UTC) ::Alright found the Vespucciland, now just need to find Gaul.Baggins 01:07, March 24, 2010 (UTC) : Where was it mentioned?? I'm so curious now! Grahamburger 11:07, March 24, 2010 (UTC) A business card on a bulletin board in F.A.'s office.Baggins 11:10, March 24, 2010 (UTC) Minor mentions I thought i'd make a list of minor mentions, or off-hand references here for now (while I look through text files in game). Some of these may be regional cultures, and not literal places. Direct *Earth (QFG2), apparently alternate name for Gloriana. *India, Henry the Hermit snake charmer's basket from there (QFG4 also refers to Indian Tacos in Baba Yaga's cookbook, but this is probably a reference to Native Americans). *Egypt, I've already added this to the list, gets references several times in the games and manuals in descriptions of items. Most ingame references are indirect "Egyptian". *Scotland, Nessie is looking for a way back there (the comments also contains a reference to Conquests of the Longbow, but Scotland and Nessie are not directly related to that game). *Tangiers, the Baron picked up some windows during a crusade there. *Europe, flagstones near Spielburg castle, African or European. *Germany, eastern and western, flagstones near Spielburg castle. *Damascus, a reference to Damascus steel (weapons merchant, qfg3). *Greece, man searched for the fleece from there. Indirectly, Wolfie sells Grecian urns, and language in Silmaria is Greek, Greek Figure, Greek Coffee. *Delphi, Oracle of *Thebes *California, QFG3, also Kalifornia, a pun, of the state and Greek greetings used by Ann Agrama (QFGV), *Matterhorn, climbing the Zauberburg makes the hero feel as if he has scaled that mountain. *Southern Seas *Southern Sands *Isfahan *Mt. Everest, a wall in Spielburg reminded the Hero that he once thought about climbing Mt. Everest, looking at a rock, says Mr. Everest, circa 8 zillion BC (It gets bigger). *Vespuciland (South Vespuciland) (QFGV) *Rio D (QFGV) *Helena *Rome *Gaul *Mediterranean (QFGV manual) *Madrid *Venice *Pompeii *Vesuvius *Shangri La (QFG3) Injoke/humor/easter egg/4th wall/idiom Some are direct references, but somewhat more humorous use. *Eluria, Delphinius is looking for a hero to save his home, near Mirror lake. He is looking for Adam. He swims back to Ecoquest. *Leyendecker Museum, a sarcophagus in Erasmus house comes from there. *Half Dome, added to the list, a mountain near Nob Hill. Easter egg, appears in several games in the series. Sierra's trademark. *Boulder Colorado, or Boulder Dam *Gibralter, not the rock of (QFG1VGA)/Rock of (QFG3) *Pebble Beach *Beirut, refugees of, *Lebanon, Cedars of *Versailles, treety of. *Belgium (QG1) *Lytton *Dead Sea *Red Sea *Cleveland *Australia, an upside tower most likely made there. *Yosemite National Park, a view in Spielburg reminds the Hero of the park. Also mentioned throughout the series in connection to the Moose head. *Deliver, Sir Rhosis of (QG5 banner) *Ghomer Pile (QG5 banner) *Gilroy, Ambience of...in the Spring. *Gondwanaland, after the Wild Party of '42' *Oz, Wizard of..., I am Oz, the great and terrible. *Fresno (QFG2), i've been to... Hot? Ha!, ...Raisin could love the blazing orange sun of Shapeir. *Japan, Made-in- *Kansas, not in...anymore (QFG1) *Mason-Dixon line *Maginot line *San Francisco (QFG4), you don't need to wear flowers in your hair. *Norway, a tree might have originated from there (qfg4), Norwegian wood (QFG1 VGA). *Notre Dame, Lunchpack of & Hunchback *Newcastle, taking coals to *Vulcan, musical instrument *Tullamore *Agnor, Dragon of *Bristol, Chicken of *Carnegie Hall (QFGV manual) *Mythcatonic U *Catatonic U *Albuquerque, turn left (QFG3) *Sumatra, Giant Tree of... erm Fricana (QFG3) *Avacado Jungle, Amazon of the *Birnam Wood Indirect *Crete, "Cretian urn" (QFG3) *Navaho Nation, Enry has a Navajo ceremonial bridal pot. *Zulu warrior, reference to QFG3, indirect Fricana tribe. *Polynesia, a Polynesian mask in the Hero's Tale Inn. *Peru, Peruvian Onklunk (note this is also a reference to LSL2) *East Los Angeles, Guide to East L.A. *France, French Foreign Legion. This is an indirect reference to france, from Stanley and Ollie (characters that are somewhat easter egg versions of Laurel and Hardy). Also see reference to French cuisine in QFG4. *Orient, reference/s to "Oriental" *Arabia, reference to Arabic (QFG3 manual), "Arabian desert city of Raseir"(QFG Anthology manual, pg 15), Arabian language. *Persia, Persian carpet, Persian Golfer. *Africa, African or European, African land of Tarna (Shadows of Darkness Technical Manual, 28) *East Africa, East African land of Tarna (QFG4) *Italy, Italian chef *Bavaria, Bavarian *Corinth, Corinthian *Ionia, Ionic *Alps, "...is an Alpine valley..." (QFG1) HeavensNjun: "The Heavens reflect the Earth, and vice versa." (extra-terrestrial places not on Gloriana itself, planets, etc); *Andromeda, the home galaxy/planet of the Two Guys. *Mars *Jupiter *Venus (QFG1) *Lahib *Moon *Salim *Amal *Eye (Eye of Shadow), the Planet known as *Xenon *Ortega *Phleebhut *Uranus *Betelgeuse *Tau Ceti, 31.6 parsecs *Constellations/Stars: "Dragon" ("Drake"), "Saurus", "Scorpion", "Hand" ("Dark Hand"), Sagittarius References to places, but not necessarily places *Antwerp, not a nation, but a creature (no evidence of a city of the same name). Though they are associated with Belgium. *Daventree, a reference to Daventry in KQ, in this case not a location but a tree (QFG1, QFG3). *Ponderosa, Ponderosa pine (QFG1) *Iowa, a pun on "I owe ya" (QFG4). *Alaska, "Baked Alaska, O.K., Alaska. She says, "No Thanks" (pun on I'll aska ya?) *Dixie, whistlin. *Herzwesten, a fictional brewery (QFG3) *Kuwait, "Kuwait a minute." (QFG2) *Tennasee, "What did Tenna see"(QFG4) Places described on other websites but I have not confirmed n/a Baggins 21:33, March 12, 2010 (UTC) Egypt and Thebes I just realized, none of these lists (nor ours) includes Giza, the land that Logos and Rakeesh met in. Is it supposed to be separate land or part of Egypt? Do we know? Grahamburger 19:27, March 13, 2010 (UTC) :::My guess two options, its an alternative name for "Egypt", or its a city within Egypt (like the real world). For that matter Zurich, could also be a city inside of another land. Noting that they came to Silmaria from Zurich. That can imply going from one city to another city. It would have been different if the context said, going from Zurich to Marete. In the real world Zurich is a city.Baggins 19:41, March 13, 2010 (UTC) :: That makes sense, and since we know of Egypt there is no reason to list Giza as a separate place. I would assume Zurich is a city too except we don't know the name of the land it is in... which i guess means we can just do what they do in KQ and name the biggest settlement after the land. :P Grahamburger 19:47, March 13, 2010 (UTC) Minor correction though, the line is "Thebes" not Giza.Baggins 19:58, March 13, 2010 (UTC) : Yeah, I *just* noticed that. I was thinking Giza because it was about the Sphinx. Whoops! Grahamburger 20:08, March 13, 2010 (UTC) QFG3 So hmm, my message foulder in QFG3 lacks most character messages, only has 2 files. The game functions fine, but I just can't access in-game text through sci viewer. Also is there anway to extract text in QFG5?Baggins 20:11, March 13, 2010 (UTC) Shapeirian desert Is desert upper case or lower case? Because that makes a huge difference. In one case its a proper name, in the other case its a description. Also I think Shapeir Desert (capitalized) was an off hand remark in one of the dialogues in QFG2 itself. Couldn't tell you which character mentions it though. I know WIT, describes Ad Avis as coming from the Southern Sands.Baggins 17:20, March 20, 2010 (UTC) Ya, one of the comments I think, if you are looking at the mountains near the city is, description, "the desert of Shapeir".Baggins 18:31, March 20, 2010 (UTC) : I think they call it "the desert of Shapeir" and the "Shapeirian Desert".... it makes a certain amount of sense that way cause that's how we do it in the real world (Sahara Desert not Sahara desert for instance). The only mention ever of the "Southern Sands" is in reference to Ad Avis. It might be a separate desert, one would think it would be *really* southern with a name like that, which would imply somewhere in Fricana but his clothes and name reflect something Arabic. Another possibility might be that the Southern Sands is a collective name for all of the desert kingdoms and/or all of the deserts? That might imply that Ad Avis is a wizard from some kind of nomadic culture, like the brigands. But really, there's no canon regarding this as far as I know so I'm just kind of shooting blanks from the mouth here. :P Grahamburger 21:09, March 20, 2010 (UTC) ::Still need the exact quote for Shapeirian desert/Desert. I looked through the message file for Dr. Cranium, didn't even notice it. He does comment about Shapeir, being so scientific, because of all the elementals going on there, but I didn't see anything about the desert. Ya, the thing about the Southern Sands, is its as vague as the Zara's Eastern Woods... They both have the same kind of fancy title... Also you might be right about Ad Avis, he might be a member of the Badouin culture, that's referenced in the game. The ones that are "usually good". He could be one of those rare evil Badouin.Baggins 22:23, March 20, 2010 (UTC) :::Dr. Cranium references it when he first talks to you about his Rehydration Solution. He says something along the lines of, "why, if we could manufacture Dr. Cranium's Rehydration Solution in vast quantities, we could even rehydrate the great Shapeirian Desert!" I'll dig for it right now. The nomadic culture thing for Ad Avis is possible too, if Shapeir mirrors Arabia to such an extent that there were/still are Bedouin tribes out in the desert somewhere. StoneFrog 15:53, March 21, 2010 (UTC) : Well we know that there are nomads in the desert -- the centaurs are described as living in nomadic herds and desert brigands "roam the desert" so they must also be nomads. And Baggins says they reference Badouin that are "usually good" (and the fact that they say that, to me, implies that it's important for the player's knowledge of the world that there are evil Badouin...) although I don't remember the reference myself. Badouin's clearly the Gloriana version of Bedouin. I think we've concocted a solid fanon theory here! :P Grahamburger 17:17, March 21, 2010 (UTC) ::To be fair it is spelled "Bedouin", the quote is "The Bedouins of the desert are good people, for the most part". Looks like its one of the things that you can ask about near the point in the story just before you join the Centaur's caravan. ::Edit: found the quote, ya, its "Shapeirian desert" (lower case desert), in other words its a description rather than a proper name, much like the use of "desert of Shapeir" in QFG2 itself. I don't know where in the game I came across "Shapeir Desert", for all I know it could have just been "Shapeir desert". Which would also just be a description, rather than a proper name.Baggins 18:02, March 21, 2010 (UTC) :::I think the map included with the game also has a small drawing of the desert, surrounding mountains, and Shapeir/Raseir with the entire region labelled as "Shapeir". In which case, as Baggins said, "Shapeirian" is an adjective label - in the same way that the stretches of hills in Scotland are techniaclly "Scotland", but are referred to as the "Scottish" highlands So I say we just stick with "Shapeirian desert". StoneFrog 18:35, March 21, 2010 (UTC) ::I'm not seeing any reason to actually split the pages up either. If you ask any character about the topic of "Shapeir", they usually will briefly mention the desert, but also go into the description of the city itself (ask Shameen in QFG1 for example). "A land of golden sand and tall mountains, a city of tall buildings and winding streets". The desert doesn't get the same focus, and seems to be treated as part of the complete "shapeir", but with the city being the most important. Infact it seems the desert can even be called just "Shapeir" by some descriptions :p...Baggins 18:42, March 21, 2010 (UTC) : This is another case of the most major city/town being named after the land it's in, which is not uncommon in fantasy lands. Looking just a Quest for Glory, you have the barony of Spielburg Valley, the town of which is called Spielburg, the kingdom of Tarna, the capital city of which is called Tarna, the valley of Mordavia, the town of which is called Mordavia, and in QfG5 though the kingdom seems to be called by a few different names (Mariana), Silmaria seems to be able to refer to either the city or the kingdom. Shapeir is the name of the sultanate, which includes the desert between Shapeir (the city) and Raseir, as well as its capital city of Shapeir. However, since the sultanate includes the desert and two (well three cities since the Forbidden City probably falls within its borders) I think if we're going to have an article about just the desert, we should call it the Shapeirian Desert. Grahamburger 19:10, March 21, 2010 (UTC) It can't be Shapeirian Desert, since that is just a fan name (remember desert is not capitalized). All we have is a lower case adjective, Shapeirian desert, which is not an actual name. Back in QFG2 by those living in Shapeir, its described as the "desert of Shapeir", and possibly Shapeir desert. But usually just called Shapeir. Again, I'm going to have to go through the references to find exact spellings. But I would take Dr. Cranium's description with a grain of salt, since one its not the first generation reference. Secondly, he doesn't seem to have actually ever been to Shapeir, just heard of it second hand. So he's not the most reliable source of reference.Baggins 19:14, March 21, 2010 (UTC) :kind of interesting, but if you go back to the reference to QFG2 manual, there is a reference to "deserts of Shapeir", in the centaur section, as in plural.Baggins 20:04, March 21, 2010 (UTC) Rabiah Ok, one forum mentioned that as a name mentioned in the games. Any conformation?Baggins 12:26, March 24, 2010 (UTC) Asiatic nations Since we do not have a page specific to Asia/Arabia continent I've decided to put the place category here, to make it easier to keep track of the references. *Middle East (QFG3) *Damascus (QFG1) *Lebanon (QFG1) *Beiruit (QFG1) *Japan (QFG2) *Sumatra (QFG3) *Kuwait (QFG2) *Shapeir *Surria *Persia, Persian rug, Persian Golfer *Orient, Oriental *Arabia, Arabic, Arabian (QFG2 manual) *Isfahan *Mt. Everest (QFG1) *Inja *India *Punjabi *Taiwan *Burma *Mynamar Baggins 16:55, April 25, 2010 (UTC) Place Names So.... I'm making a topic completely devoid of any canon facts (but that's what talk pages are for! :P) but I was thinking.... if the forum posts that are linked to on this page are correct (they seem to imply that Lori did not want any place on Gloriana to have the same names as places on Earth) and that the origin story about the force wave for Gloriana is true, I wonder if the "accurate" place names -- like Germany, Europe, etc -- may be about things that somehow bled through to Gloriana from the parallel reality. Maybe because of the instability for Gloriana things can not just unintentionally be bled through, but maybe intentionally (like, the flagstones from a quarry in Europe). It would most likely be a skill of wizards, considering that WIT exists in its own reality and probably can reach other realities than Gloriana. Crayauchtin (talk) 15:30, November 3, 2012 (UTC) :Always a possibility... Of course doesn't quite explain the fact that the designers included actual place/city names like Venice, Zurich, Tangiers, Thebes, or Egypt; or the other half a dozen cities/places that Famous Adventurer is said to have visited, or that the hero apparently spent a night in Haight-Ashbury when he was younger, LOL. Unless Famous Adventurer and our hero has been crossing back and forth between the worlds. Zurich on the other hand still seems to be a place within Gloriana, as actual gnomes live there, as opposed to the banker "gnomes of Zurich" (humans of course) in the real world. :My guess is that this idea to 'change' the names of the countries to hide them must have been something that they only loosely thought about probably after making QFG2, or 3, and never really bothered wit maintining in the games, as QFG5 is probably the biggest culprit when it comes to adding 'real world' place names, :p... Baggins (talk) 17:40, November 3, 2012 (UTC)